Slektsforum Slektsforum
DIS-Norge
 
 HjelpHjelp    SøkSøk     Logg InnLogg Inn  Bli medlemBli DIS medlem  engelsk
Hvordan logge på? Les her om registrering og pålogging.
Start nytt emne    
Vis forrige emne :: Vis neste emne  
Av Innlegg
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 16 Feb 2008 22:14:31    Tittel: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

Would the Scottish Chronicles Scotum Chronicum be a good secondary source? Would the Work by A. O. Anderson have a reference to contemporaries who saw what happened? One work by this author is Kings and Kingship in Early Scotland. What about the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles would it have a reference to the death of Duncan I?
Le
Til Toppen
Skjult navn






InnleggSkrevet: 16 Feb 2008 23:44:02    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

On Feb 16, 12:14 pm, "Le Bateman" <LeBate...@att.net> wrote:
Sitat:
Would the Scottish Chronicles Scotum Chronicum be a good secondary source? Would the Work by A. O. Anderson have a reference to contemporaries who saw what happened? One work by this author is Kings and Kingship in Early Scotland. What about the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles would it have a reference to the death of Duncan I?
Le


If there was any, Anderson's _Early Sources of Scottish History, A.D.
500 to 1286_ probably would have it, but if he really was knifed in
his bed, I rather doubt anyone who witnessed it would tell the tale. I
am not aware of any contemporary evidence.

taf
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 00:23:30    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

<taf@clearwire.net> wrote in message
news:10f4835f-b64b-4dbc-806e-930bc7e9431d@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com ...
Sitat:
On Feb 16, 12:14 pm, "Le Bateman" <LeBate...@att.net> wrote:
Would the Scottish Chronicles Scotum Chronicum be a good
secondary source? Would the Work by A. O. Anderson have a
reference to contemporaries who saw what happened? One work
by this author is Kings and Kingship in Early Scotland. What
about the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles would it have a reference to
the death of Duncan I?
Le


If there was any, Anderson's _Early Sources of Scottish History, A.D.
500 to 1286_ probably would have it, but if he really was knifed in
his bed, I rather doubt anyone who witnessed it would tell the tale. I
am not aware of any contemporary evidence.

However Duncan was killed, whether in his sleep or in a skirmish, whether by
Macbeth or by someone else, we do not have a contemporary source for the
details, or any account by a writer with direct knowledge of it.

The chronicle of Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach that have been
discussed already are the earliest sources I have seen cited, and neither of
these can provide a conclusive answer. Historians generally state that it
took place at Bothnagowan (now called Pitnaveny) near Elgin - not at
Macbeth's castle as in Shakespeare. Either way, Duncan was just as much
alive until it happened and just as dead afterwards, so the purely
genealogical implications are the same. It is not certain what was meant by
"immatura" in the Tighernach annals, where exactly the same statement is
made about various other men who were killed. It probably meant not exactly
"young" or even "in his prime" as sometimes interpreted, but rather the
obvious "not yet ready to die from natural causes".

Peter Stewart
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 06:16:02    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

On Feb 16, 5:23 pm, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:

Sitat:
The chronicle of Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach that have been
discussed already are the earliest sources I have seen cited, and neither of
these can provide a conclusive answer. Historians generally state that it
took place at Bothnagowan (now called Pitnaveny) near Elgin - not at
Macbeth's castle as in Shakespeare...It is not certain what was meant by
"immatura" in the Tighernach annals, where exactly the same statement is
made about various other men who were killed. It probably meant not exactly
"young" or even "in his prime" as sometimes interpreted, but rather the
obvious "not yet ready to die from natural causes".

Peter Stupor, why do you write so much like Peter Stupid?
A contemporary is a contemporary is a contemporary, and
you know it. Scholars here cite visitations of pedigrees written
as hearsay evidence by a visitor talking to a biased gent, and
scholars here accept such as contemporary, even though in
many visitations they are further away in time than The chronicle of
Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach. So, they may not
be good enough for Peter Stupid, but Peter Stupor should snap
out of it. Consistency is the rule of genealogy, and you Peter
are acting stupid and in a stupor just because you write the
contemporary texts read "killed" and not killed in a castle but
in the field where the battle took place, and some text say it
was Macbeth and others say "his own men." Well, la de dah,
Peter Stupid. There you have it. History. Everyone on this
list, except your cadres which wants to protect Leaping Leo
the Leotard man's fictions, accepts these contemporary accounts.

Peter, Stupid, did you ignore the following:

ttp://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2008-02/1203200942
Various Kings of Alba killing each other was in no sense noteworthy.
It
happened with some frequency, for instance, King Kenneth III was
killed in
1005 by King Malcolm II who was perhaps murdered in 1034 after
instigating
the murders of Maelbrigte , his brother Findlaech who was Macbeth`s
father,
Gillecomghain, the 1st husband of Macbeth`s future wife Gruoch and
father by
her of King Lulach who preceded King Malcolm III in 1058. In addition
Kenneth III was responsible for the death of his predecessor
Conststantine III / IV
ln 997. See various articles on wikipedia in the Encyclopaedia
Brittainica for starters.
note Constantine used to be known as " IV" rather than "III" 'modern
historians'
have decided to no longer refer to Constantine I, King of the Scots as
well as the


Why, Peter Stupid, did you not call out JWC on this because he cites a
mere
wikipedia website? Hmmmm. But then, you know, Peter Stupid, that it
IS indeed
history, recorded by so many contemporaries. You do not think it came
out of
thin air, these bald statements of "killing" of Kings and Queens by
others who
wish to presume the throne, now did you? What is your inane problem,
that
you trash SGM's Richardson, and those who support him? And you let
JWC
slide? Hmmm. Where is Wile E Coyote on this one? And
MyAsthmaReturns?
And LittleMissKnowItAll, the darling Scot who knows more Scottish
history than
you could read in three lifetimes, no, make that four!~

Peter Stupid, stop being so stupid...

persiflage, persiflage, persiflage

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 07:39:02    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:23:30 GMT, "Peter Stewart"
<p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:


Sitat:
The chronicle of Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach that have been
discussed already are the earliest sources I have seen cited, and neither of
these can provide a conclusive answer. Historians generally state that it
took place at Bothnagowan (now called Pitnaveny) near Elgin - not at
Macbeth's castle as in Shakespeare.

Just for a bit of amusement on this thread, I used to live on one of
the houses on the Pitgaveny estate, which is now owned by the Dunbars
(which is poetic justuce I suppose).

On the lawn in front of Pitgaveny House is a stone which was called
the Bothgouan Stone and was said to mark the spot where Macbeth killed
Duncan.

The former laird, Captain James Brander-Dunbar (the model for Buchan's
John Macnab) had the area around it excavated to see if it was of
archaeological interest. It turned out to be part of a drainage system
from the 17th or early 18th century.

James
James Dempster

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 07:52:42    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

"James Dempster" <talksinsentences@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rhhfr3dfam1flq7qrja6itgt00os2uloqb@4ax.com...
Sitat:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:23:30 GMT, "Peter Stewart"
p_m_stewart@msn.com> wrote:


The chronicle of Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach that have
been
discussed already are the earliest sources I have seen cited, and neither
of
these can provide a conclusive answer. Historians generally state that it
took place at Bothnagowan (now called Pitnaveny) near Elgin - not at
Macbeth's castle as in Shakespeare.

Just for a bit of amusement on this thread, I used to live on one of
the houses on the Pitgaveny estate, which is now owned by the Dunbars
(which is poetic justuce I suppose).

On the lawn in front of Pitgaveny House is a stone which was called
the Bothgouan Stone and was said to mark the spot where Macbeth killed
Duncan.

The former laird, Captain James Brander-Dunbar (the model for Buchan's
John Macnab) had the area around it excavated to see if it was of
archaeological interest. It turned out to be part of a drainage system
from the 17th or early 18th century.

Thank you, James - so perhaps Bill Arnold's favourite warrior ancestor
Duncan "the Gracious" had the honour to die in what became (if it wasn't
already) a cesspit.

To quote the proud descendant, masquerading as ~Bret, "There you have it.
History."

Peter Stewart
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 14:35:06    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

On Feb 17, 12:39 am, James Dempster <talksinsenten...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Sitat:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:23:30 GMT, "Peter Stewart"

p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
The chronicle of Marianus Scotus and the annals of Tighernach that have been
discussed already are the earliest sources I have seen cited, and neither of
these can provide a conclusive answer. Historians generally state that it
took place at Bothnagowan (now called Pitnaveny) near Elgin - not at
Macbeth's castle as in Shakespeare.

Just for a bit of amusement on this thread, I used to live on one of
the houses on the Pitgaveny estate, which is now owned by the Dunbars
(which is poetic justuce I suppose).

On the lawn in front of Pitgaveny House is a stone which was called
the Bothgouan Stone and was said to mark the spot where Macbeth killed
Duncan.

The former laird, Captain James Brander-Dunbar (the model for Buchan's
John Macnab) had the area around it excavated to see if it was of
archaeological interest. It turned out to be part of a drainage system
from the 17th or early 18th century.

James
James Dempster

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.

gotcha! you're outlined in chalk,
stumbled down drunk from too much drinkin',
and a piffle too much JD, aka Jack Daniels,
and where did you come up with this fiction, you sot!

persiflage, persiflage, persiflage

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval
Til Toppen
Skjult navn
Gjest





InnleggSkrevet: 17 Feb 2008 17:19:05    Tittel: Re: Sources for the Murder of Duncan The Gracious Svar med Sitat

On Feb 17, 12:52 am, "Peter Stewart" <p_m_stew...@msn.com> wrote:
Sitat:
"James Dempster" <talksinsenten...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Now you have, Peter Stewart shares a computer with James Dempster,
creepy trolls

This is how a lie gets created about Duncan I The Gracious King of
Scots
by trollery

http://www.trolleryfoolery.com/stuporstupid/trollery.shtml

Troll Wildlife Refuge (Sockittome Usnet Gen Medieval Trollitus)

Attention usenet visitors. This area has been declared a troll
wildlife refuge. To learn about the troll, its habitat, and its way of
life, please read the sign-post below. If you would like to learn more
about the troll, you can pick up books and souvenirs in the gift shop
at the end of the tour. Thank you in advance for observing all troll
wildlife refuge rules. Have a nice day.

Physical Characteristics
The common woodland troll (Trollus Useneticus) is an approximately
1.7m long nocturnal furry creature that has been found to exist in
nearly every climate and latitude. Predominant features includea very
pale complexion, a large bony ridge above the eyes, a dense cranium,
dragging knuckles, and a pungent odor.

Habitat
Most trolls spend the daylight hours under a large rock sleeping.
Unfortunately, the natural habitat of the troll has been encroached by
development (as is all too common these days). The modern troll has to
make due with a slimy, moss covered rock. Often, trolls are forced to
endure poor sanitation and filthy living conditions. Combined with the
general lack of hygiene among trolls, this results in a very
unpleasant odor.

Activities And Diet
During their active period at night, the common troll engages in
numerous activities, though the most important of these is foraging
for food. The one characteristic that ties all different troll species
and sub-species together is their diet. Trolls invariably survive off
of a combination of cheetos, arguments, and annoying others. A typical
troll requires approximately 10 arguments and flames per day just to
stay alive. With the increasing use of killfiles and just regular
ignoring of trolls, it has become more and more difficult for trolls
to eke out a basic sustenance.

Known Predators
Unfortunately, trolls have many predators. Most common among them are
the helpful researcher, the informative poster, the cool headed
responder, and the kill-filer. The cool header responder is
technically not a troll predator however. Trolls are typically unfazed
by logical counter arguments and cool headed reason. However, even
though their posts do not deliver the same level of sustenance that a
"flamer" or an "annoyed poster" may provide, they still provide a
valuable source of dietary fiber for the troll. The most dangerous
predators for the trolls are the helpful researcher, the informative
poster, and the kill-filer. The common troll is highly allergic to
fact, real data, and research. Upon skin contact with actual hard
evidence and real data, the troll will experience intense itching and
burning at the site of contact, followed by lesions and blisters.
Eventually, this results in loss of skin near the area of contact, and
usually to loss of a limb (in the example of contact near the arm or
leg). Contact with facts and data near the facial area usually results
in a slow painful death. Contact with extremely high doses of fact and
hard data can cause temporary loss of consciousness and even permanent
brain damage for the troll. The kill-filer poses a much more
insidious threat to the troll. Not posing a direct threat to the troll
per se, the kill-filer simply deprives the troll of yet another source
of nourishment. Some trolls have developed counter measures to thwart
the kill-filers, usually this takes the form of a type of camoflage.
The trolls' predators have reaped a terrible slaughter over the years,
resulting in the death of great hordes of trolls. Trolls continue to
breed rapidly though and their population is stable. However, it is
unknown how long this situation can persist. Eventually, natural
predators and poachers may result in lower numbers of trolls. Already
we are seeing lower diversity among the different troll species. That
is why this troll habitat refuge exists, to ensure the preservation of
the troll for not only our future, but the future of our children.

Sock Puppet Trollery
This troll habitat refuge has been paid for in part by the Anti Troll-
Defamation League, the International Society for the Advancement of
Trolls, and the Troll Habitat Preservation Alliance.

trollery, trollery, trollery

persiflage, persiflage, persiflage

~Bret, scion of Charle de Magne

http://Back-stabbing Ancestral Descendants ASSoc.genealogy.medieval
Til Toppen
Vis Innlegg fra:   
Start nytt emne Alle klokkeslett er EET (Europa)
Side 1 av 1
 
Gå til:  
Du kan ikke starte nye emner i dette forumet
Du kan ikke svare på emner i dette forumet
Du kan ikke endre dine egne innlegg i dette forumet
Du kan ikke slette dine egne innlegg i dette forumet
Du kan ikke laste opp filer til dette forumet
Du kan ikke laste ned filer fra dette forumet


Powered by phpBB 2.0.14 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group