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InnleggSkrevet: 20 Feb 2008 23:59:01    Tittel: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Per an early note in the _Register_, Leonard Chester the immigrant was
a grandson of Leonard Chester of Blaby by his wife "Bridget, dau. of
John Sharpe, of Frisby, Super Wreke" ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=eyocy7cBriYC&pg=PA338&dq=%22john+shar pe%22+super&lr=

This is all nicely confirmed in the 1619 Leicester _Visitation_ ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA138&dq=%22samson+ch ester&lr=

where Bridget Sharpe's father is more picturesquely called "de Frisbie
super le reake in Com' Leic.":

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA138&dq=%22samson+ch ester&lr=

Doing a search in Google Books, we come up with a snippet naming some
gentleman who married "first, 15th December, 1572, Anne, eldest
daughter of John Sharpe, esq. of Wickham, and subsequently of Frisby,
in the county of Leicester, by Mary ..."

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=%22of+wickham+and+subsequently+of% 22&btnG=Search+Books

Assuming this is the same John Sharpe, the Saunders pedigree in the
Northamptonshire Visitation of 1564 yields a possible match for his
wife Mary: a Mary Saunders, daughter of William Saunders by wife
Dorothy Belgrave, who was married before 1564 to "John Sharpe of
Wickham, co. Leic." (Note that Mary Saunders's next sister was named
Bridget.)

http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=%22john+sharp e%22+wickham&lr=

Dorothy, wife of William Saunders, seems to have lines from the
families of Cotton of Hamstall Ridware, Glene of Glene, Willoughby,
etc.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=1 619+leicester&lr=#PPA68,M1
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 00:29:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Sitat:
I note that a chaplain was presented to Frisbie in 1567 by "John
Sharpe of Hobie in the diocese of Lincoln, gent."

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=%22john+sharpe%22+hobie&btnG=Searc h+Books
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 00:30:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

The 1578 will of John Sharpe of Hobye might be important:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA200&dq=wreake+sharp e&lr=#PPA61,M1

I note that a chaplain was presented to Frisbie in 1567 by "John
Sharpe of Hobie in the diocese of
Lincoln, gent."
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 00:36:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

In current-day spelling, these place names are Hoby, Wycombe, and
Frisby-on-the-Wreake. Multimap shows Hoby is within a mile of Frisby-
on-the-Wreake ...

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|hoby#t=l&map=52.75091,-1.00853|1 2|4&loc=GB:52.75091:-1.00853:14|hoby|Hoby,%20Melton%20Mowbray,%20Leice stershire,%20England,%20LE14%203
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 06:16:01    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

On Feb 20, 2:29 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sitat:
The 1578 will of John Sharpe of Hobye might be important:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA200&dq=wreake+shar. ..

I note that a chaplain was presented to Frisbie in 1567 by "John
Sharpe of Hobie in the diocese of
Lincoln, gent."



I had previously located an IPM for this John Sharpe.
I didnt notice the will, probably because the place name wasnt
familiar.

Ive probably mentioned before that John's son Nicholas Sharpe
left an extensive PCC will proved 1614 (ten pages or so, with a
listing of books
he owned). The will mentions an uncle Robert Sharpe of Wissenden,
Rutland.

Also, Charles Banks had located the marriage of Leonard Chester & Mary
-
at Faxton, Rutland, which is not widely known.

Leslie
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 06:40:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Anne Sharpe, apparently the "eldest daughter" of this John, married in
December 1572 to Nicholas Plumtre, according to several patron
submissions in the IGI. Going from memory, I seem to recall that
there's a Plumtre pedigree in Sir William Dugdale, _The Visitation of
Nottinghamshire Begun in 1662 and Finished in 1664_, ed. G. D. Squibb
(London: Harleian Society, 1986 [new series, vol. 5]), in which this
marriage with a daughter of John Sharpe of Frisby is shown (I'll
double-check this tomorrow, but I'm certain I remember it [or is it
someplace in Thoroton's _Nottinghamshire_?).

Two dates from the extracted IGI which pertain to these Chesters ...

Desford, co. Leicester
--Samson Chester, son of "Lenod," bapt. 9 June 1591

Garthorpe, co. Leicester
--Richard Sharp to "Ales" Chester, 7 Feb. 1613

I happen to be a descendant of Sampson Chester's wife, Frances Tough
or Tuffe, by one of her later husbands. Has it been generally known
that she had a son by Samson (apparently named John Chester), who was
a minister in England?

http://books.google.com/books?id=c1pCAAAAIAAJ&q=%22ralph+tough%22&dq=% 22ralph+tough%22&lr=&pgis=1
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 17:44:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Sitat:
he owned). The will mentions an uncle Robert Sharpe of Wissenden,
Rutland.

Notice how close Whissendine, Rutland, is to Frisby-on-the-Wreake,
Leics. ...

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|hoby#t=l&map=52.71913,-0.77136|1 2|4&loc=GB:52.71913:-0.77136:14|whissendine|Whissendine,%20Oakham,%20L eicestershire,%20England,%20LE15%207
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InnleggSkrevet: 21 Feb 2008 23:49:01    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Just a few further details.

Sir William Dugdale, _The Visitation of Nottinghamshire Begun in 1662
and Finished in 1664_, ed. G. D. Squibb (London: Harleian Society,
1986 [new series, vol. 5]), p. 102, is a pedigree of "Plumtre of
Nottingham," and starts with John Plumtre, d. 1552, of Nottingham,
whose son Nicholas was admitted to the Inner Temple 1564, and had
wives Eleanor (no issue) and "Anne dau. to Nich. [? sic] Sharpe of
Frisby in Com. Leic.," by whom he had an only son Henry Plumtre of
Nottingham, whose descendants are shown.

John Nichols' _Leicestershire_, vol. 3, part 1, p. 261, sub "Frisby,"
states:

"The freeholders here in 1630 were, Robert Sharpe, gent. Richard
Steele, alias Kitchin, and Richard Sharpe.
John Sharpe, of Frisby, married Mary, daughter of William
Sanders, esq. of Welford, by Dorothy Belgrave his second [? sic]
wife."

This last statement is footnoted to "Bridges, vol. I. p. 593."

Page 262 notes:

"A room, or rather a place of rubbish, at the West end [of the
church], on the North side of the tower (antiently a school, and
occasionally used for a vestry), contains a few old Latin books, left
by Nicholas Sharpe, lord of the manor; among others, St. Augustine,
and Origen, and other Fathers, in a wretched condition.

....

Upon the North wall in the chancel are two blank shields, under which,
an an arched recess in the wall, is the following inscription upon
alabaster:

HERE LIETH
THE BODIE OF NICOLAS
SHARPE, OF FRISBY IN THE COUN-
TYE OF LEICESTER, GENTLEMAN,
CHEFE LORD OF THIS TOWNE AND ASFORD-
BIE; WHO DEPARTED THE 10TH OF APRIL, AN. 1614."


On p. 267, sub "Hoby":

"In the nave, on an alabaster stone, is cut with a chisel a large
figure of a woman (probably the Blessed Virgin), and, underneath, the
figures of a woman, and at her feet one son and three daughters, all
kneeling and praying to it; with this inscription:

Here lieth the bodie of
Marie wife of John Sharpe; who
deceased the [ ] day
of Marche, in the yeare of our Lord
God 1566; on whose soull Jhesus have mercy, amen."

So this does at least show that John Sharpe of Frisby/ Hoby had two
other daughters in addition to his son Nicholas and daughter Anne
(Sharpe) Plumptre.
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 00:09:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

On Feb 20, 8:40 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sitat:
Anne Sharpe, apparently the "eldest daughter" of this John, married in
December 1572 to Nicholas Plumtre, according to several patron
submissions in the IGI.


The 1614 will of Nicholas Sharpe mentions sister Ann wife of Nicholas
Plumtree.
It mentions some other cousins (Saunders I think), but its been a
while since
I looked at it.


Sitat:
I happen to be a descendant of Sampson Chester's wife, Frances Tough
or Tuffe, by one of her later husbands. Has it been generally known
that she had a son by Samson (apparently named John Chester), who was
a minister in England?


Yes, those details were published in a TAG article, about 50 years
ago.

I may have to do a full write up about Sarah (Woodward) Henchman.
She had another relative who emigrated - William Abraham of Boston,
Mass.,
arrived after 1700, a descendant of Judith (Abraham), sister of
Hezekiah Woodward.
The article on them, in NGSQ in the mid 80s, stated that Hezekiah &
Judith's mother
was Frances Parratt (not Rudhale), without providing good evidence.
Rudhale is very likely the correct one, but I'll have to collect all
the evidence.

Have you noticed that Edward Bromfield of Boston is not included in
the Plantagenet
ancestry books?

Also, Rev. John Davenport should be in the Magna Carta Ancestry books.
While there is some controversy on his Shirley ancestry, he does have
a line of
descent from the Wroth family of Enfield, Mdx, which goes into the
Middle Ages.

Leslie
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 00:49:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Sitat:
I may have to do a full write up about Sarah (Woodward) Henchman.
She had another relative who emigrated - William Abraham of Boston,
Mass.,
arrived after 1700, a descendant of Judith (Abraham), sister of
Hezekiah Woodward.
The article on them, in NGSQ in the mid 80s, stated that Hezekiah &
Judith's mother
was Frances Parratt (not Rudhale), without providing good evidence.
Rudhale is very likely the correct one, but I'll have to collect all
the evidence.

That would be an interesting read.

Think about working on this Chester-Sharpe thing, as well. I'm
guessing here, but it seems the Nicholas Sharpe will of 1614 didn't
name any Chester cousins, ... right?

However, we see the two main free-holders at Frisby in 1630 were
Robert and Richard Sharpe, surely the same two of those names who had
married Alice and Anne Chester per the Visitation. I'm assuming
Robert and Richard were connections of Nicholas' uncle Robert Sharpe
of Whissendine, Rutland. Since Nicholas probably arranged these
marriages for his Chester nieces, that may explain why that branch of
the family (Chesters) weren't explicitly named in his will.

Hopefully, the 1578 will of John Sharpe of Hoby will mention a
daughter Bridget, but even if it only says something vague about
"daughters" (plural), this connection seems quite likely (to me, at
least).
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 01:24:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

There might be some very interesting ancestral lines even if Mary
(Saunders) Sharpe was a daughter of her father's second wife, Dorothy
(Young) (Haddon) Saunders ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=ECoEAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=w orcester+visitation#PPA153,M1
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 17:27:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

The many marriages of Dorothy (Young) (Haddon) (Saunders) Dayrell --

http://books.google.com/books?id=YdIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA317&dq=%22married+t wice+previously+1st+to+william%22&lr=
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 17:30:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

http://books.google.com/books?id=ji4DAAAAMAAJ&q=william+welford+saunde rs+dorothy&dq=william+welford+saunders+dorothy&lr=&pgis=1
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InnleggSkrevet: 22 Feb 2008 17:31:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

http://books.google.com/books?id=NZlVP2hKuwQC&pg=PA34&dq=william+welfo rd+saunders+dorothy&lr=
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InnleggSkrevet: 23 Feb 2008 06:45:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Not trying to derail this research, but something you linked me, made
some dull bell go off in the utter darkness in the back of my mind.

So I started poking about and found (providing we assume that Dorothy
Young/Yonge was William Haddon's only wife), that Walter Haddon,
"Master of Requests" has a stated birthyear of 1516.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GUcS_-6DNCYC&pg=PR117&dq=walter+haddo n+master+of+requests&as_brr=1
that he was born 1516

I do not know exactly when all of Dorothy Young's children were born,
but Audrey Saunders who married Sir George Villiers of Brooksby
certainly couldn't be born much earlier than about 1540. Her own son
Sir Edward Villiers has a DNB in which it says he was b 1585. And her
husband Sir George Villiers was b 1547/8 ("14 years and more" on 23
Nov 1561)

So taking that all together it would *appear* that we can assign a
rather narrow birthwindow to Dorothy Young of 1492/1502

Her son (if he is her son) Walter Haddon, Master of Requests, married
Anne Sutton, dau of Henry Sutton of Notts [of Aram, co Notts]. This
marriage, is mentioned is passing, in the DNB entry for Anne's next
husband Sir Henry Brooks of Cobham (b 1538)

They there mention that Henry Brooke, by Anne had three sons, and I
also have two daughters, so all of this smushes together the possible
birthyears for those children as well and adds some more useful ties
for matching up in-laws in documents.

Will Johnson
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InnleggSkrevet: 23 Feb 2008 06:51:02    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Just one more tidbit.

When Dorothy Young married William Haddon, she was perhaps marrying
up.

William was the son of Richard Haddon, Knt, and Lord Mayor of London
in 1506, by his wife Catherine Norland, daughter of Thomas Norland,
grocer and alderman of London tempe H4.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JuQ4AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA2-PA37&dq=walter+ha ddon+master+of+requests&lr=&as_brr=1


Will Johnson
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InnleggSkrevet: 23 Feb 2008 21:36:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Sitat:
Not trying to derail this research, but something you linked me, made
some dull bell go off in the utter darkness in the back of my mind.

I don't understand exactly how you think you are derailing it.

I had a look at some of the pertinent HOP biographies, and was a
little surprised myself at some of the early-ish dates for some of
these folks, but think it could work out as stated or implied in the
visitations.

Say Dorothy Young was indeed young when she had Walter Haddon (age 16,
hence born 1500) ... She could then have had her daughter Audrey as
late as 1545, which would make Audrey and her husband approximately of
an age.

If Mary (Saunders) Sharpe was a daughter of Dorothy Young, there's no
particular problem with chronology, if she married a bit late and had
her children at the end of her reproductive cycle (as the small number
of children might imply).

However, even if she was a daughter of the first (Belgrave) marriage,
she could still have been born as late as say 1525 (remember, her step-
mother would have been still married to husband No. 1 as late as 1516,
and probably some years after that).

But, even assuming Mary was born ca. 1515, the same year as her step-
brother Walter Haddon, she would have been only 51 at death in 1566.
Her eldest daughter married in 1572, so was probably born by 1552,
when Mary was 37 (by this hypothesis). So, once again, things work
out fine, assuming Mary (Saunders) Sharpe was a bit "over-the-hill" at
marriage (and if her daughters were also "over the hill" at their own
marriages, this relieves the chronological pressure further)...
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InnleggSkrevet: 23 Feb 2008 21:45:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Will, you're an expert on the Cave family, aren't you?

When did Dorothy (Belgrave) (Cave) Saunders' first husband Henry Cave
die?
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InnleggSkrevet: 23 Feb 2008 23:05:05    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

Looking into the Cave family, I may have come up with additional
ancestry via the Saunders line.

Notice that the Northamptonshire Visitations show Mary (Saunders)
Sharpe's grandfather as "Edward Saunders of Harrington," whose wife is
not named.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=%22john+sharp e%22+wickham&lr=

But the Leicestershire Visitation, pedigree of Cave, shows a Richard
Cave, whose daughter Margaret married an Edward Saunders of
Harrington ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA212&dq=cave+saunder s+1619&lr=#PPA126,M1
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InnleggSkrevet: 24 Feb 2008 14:27:03    Tittel: Re: Gentry ancestry for the Chesters of Connecticut? Svar med Sitat

On Feb 23, 4:06 pm, John Brandon <starbuc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sitat:
Looking into the Cave family, I may have come up with additional
ancestry via the Saunders line.

Notice that the Northamptonshire Visitations show Mary (Saunders)
Sharpe's grandfather as "Edward Saunders of Harrington," whose wife is
not named.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wLgEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=%22john+shar. ..

But the Leicestershire Visitation, pedigree of Cave, shows a Richard
Cave, whose daughter Margaret married an Edward Saunders of
Harrington ...

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lr4KAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA212&dq=cave+saunde. ..

and Metcalfe shows Margaret married to Edward's son Thomas with Edward
married to a Joan:

Walter Metcalfe, The Visitations of Northamptonshire made in 1564 and
1618-8: With Northamptonshire Pedigrees, London, (1887), p 40-41,
123.

Doug Smith
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